Custom refillable packaging wholesale looks simple until the first fill test starts exposing the weak points. A pump that feels fine in a sample can clog once the formula thickens from 180 cP to 420 cP. A cap that looks precise on a render can loosen after the second refill. A jar that photographs beautifully can still fail if the liner and thread profile were never matched to the product. I have watched more than one promising program stall for reasons that had nothing to do with artwork and everything to do with mechanics. Honestly, it is a little maddening how often the prettiest sample is the least trustworthy one.
Custom refillable packaging wholesale has become a practical buying strategy for skincare, haircare, home fragrance, cleaning liquids, and personal care concentrates. The appeal is straightforward: brands are not purchasing a one-time container; they are building a repeatable system that supports replenishment, stronger shelf presence, and more controlled unit economics. For teams investing in branded packaging, the value sits in consistency as much as appearance. A refill program that lasts 6 to 12 months can change the economics of the whole line, and sometimes the customer experience too.
At Custom Logo Things, I look at refillable packaging the way I look at a filling line in a Shenzhen or Dongguan plant: decoration is only the visible layer. Geometry, neck finish, wall thickness, torque, and pump compatibility decide whether the order runs cleanly or turns into a series of sample revisions. I remember standing beside a conveyor in Dongguan while a neat-looking cap kept spitting out torque failures like it had a personal grudge. The sample was gorgeous. The line did not care. If it cannot survive the second refill, it is not ready for production. A package that fails at 18 to 22 N·cm torque is not a marketing problem; it is a manufacturing problem.
Why Custom Refillable Packaging Wholesale Pays Off
The commercial case for custom refillable packaging wholesale gets stronger when the product depends on repeat purchase, premium positioning, or everyday use. Single-use packaging keeps getting replaced. Refillable packaging builds a container system that remains with the consumer while the refill component carries the repeat order. That changes the cost structure in a way that matters over time, especially when a customer buys a 300 ml bottle once and then purchases a 1 liter refill pouch every 4 to 8 weeks.
I saw this clearly during a client review for a facial moisturizer line in Hangzhou. The first packaging round used a stock jar with a thin snap cap. It looked presentable enough, but customer feedback kept circling back to the same issue: the cap loosened after repeated use. We shifted the program into a tighter custom refillable packaging wholesale structure with a threaded PP inner cup and a more stable closure. Complaints dropped. The packaging finally matched the way the product was actually being used. I still remember the client saying, half relieved and half annoyed, “So the container should survive the product, not just the photo shoot?” Yes. Exactly. The replacement rate fell by roughly 18% in the first quarter after the redesign.
Merchandising gains are part of the picture too. Refillable systems make it easier to keep package branding consistent across several SKUs. Colors, finishes, and refill parts can be standardized while the line still feels differentiated. I’ve seen brands use the same 28/410 neck finish and pump base across body lotion, hand soap, and shampoo, then vary only the overcap color and label treatment. The shelf set looks planned, not patched together. One matte white system with brushed silver accents can make three products feel like one family.
Refillable formats work best when the package behavior matches the product behavior. Skincare jars and airless pumps need tight fit and clean dispensing. Haircare bottles need durable closures and solid squeeze recovery. Home fragrance and cleaning liquids often need chemical resistance, tamper evidence, and consistent pump or trigger performance. Personal care concentrates can work too, especially when a larger reusable master pack is paired with a 500 ml or 1 liter refill pouch. The format is not the trend; the interaction between product and container is.
“The pretty sample never scared me,” an old plant manager told me at a pump line in Ningbo. “It was the one that ran 20,000 cycles without clogging that earned the order.” That line has stayed with me because it captures the real test for custom refillable packaging wholesale. A line that can hold ±0.5 ml fill accuracy over 10,000 units is worth more than a glossy mockup.
Wholesale buyers do not need novelty for its own sake. They need packaging that can be decorated, boxed, palletized, and filled at scale without constant correction. Repeatability is the metric that protects margin. Same dimensions. Same torque window. Same decoration tolerance. Same refill behavior. That is what turns a promising concept into a stable program. If the first 5,000 units are consistent, the next 50,000 become manageable rather than risky.
The revenue side is just as real. Strong refill systems can lower repeat packaging spend, support retention, and raise the perceived value of the product itself. Premium consumers notice weight, closure feel, and finish. If the package feels solid and the refill path is obvious, the product begins to feel like part of a routine rather than a one-off purchase. A 350gsm C1S artboard carton with a matte AQ coating can support that premium signal before the customer even opens the box.
Custom Refillable Packaging Wholesale Product Types
People usually ask what counts as custom refillable packaging wholesale, and the answer depends on how the product dispenses and how the refill happens. Jars, bottles, airless pumps, pump dispensers, trigger sprayers, refill pouches, dropper systems, and cartridge-based containers each solve a different handling problem. Choosing the format early saves time later, especially when artwork, filling equipment, and shipping cartons all depend on the final structure. A decision made before the first dieline is far cheaper than one made after the first failed fill test.
Jars are common for creams, balms, and thicker skincare formulas. They can be PET, PP, or glass, and they often pair well with a replaceable inner cup or threaded refill insert. A 50 g PP jar with a 70 mm lid diameter is a common starting point for facial creams. Bottles suit haircare, lotions, soaps, and cleaning liquids, especially when neck finish and cap compatibility are standardized. A 250 ml PET bottle with a 24/410 neck can often share components across multiple SKUs. Airless pumps help protect oxygen-sensitive formulas, though they are more complex and need stricter compatibility testing, including 100 to 200 pump cycles before approval.
Trigger sprayers and pump dispensers are practical for cleaning liquids, room sprays, and certain haircare applications. A 28 mm trigger sprayer with a 0.9 ml output per stroke is common in household care. Refill pouches cut shipping weight and reduce secondary waste, and they tend to perform especially well in detergent and soap refill programs where the customer already owns a rigid dispenser. A 1 liter stand-up pouch can weigh a fraction of a glass bottle shipment. Dropper systems work for serums and concentrates, although they need careful neck and bulb matching to avoid leakage. Cartridge-based refill containers are more specialized, but they can create a premium “replace the core, keep the shell” ritual when the brand wants something memorable.
Material choice matters just as much as format. PET and PCR PET are widely used for clear, lightweight bottles. PP and HDPE are strong choices for caps, pumps, and chemical-resistant applications. Glass still has a strong place in premium skin and fragrance lines, while aluminum gives a clean, modern feel and works well where light protection and recyclability are priorities. Multi-layer pouch structures can help with barrier performance, though they need careful planning if the brand wants a simpler recycling story. A 3-layer PET/AL/PE pouch may protect a sensitive liquid better than a mono-layer alternative, but it changes the sustainability conversation.
Decoration is the point where custom refillable packaging wholesale starts to feel closer to custom printed boxes for the primary pack itself. Silk screen printing gives crisp logos and durable color blocks. Hot stamping adds metallic detail. Labeling stays flexible and useful for smaller runs. Matte and Glossy coatings change the hand feel and shelf appearance. Spray finish and color-matched masterbatch can turn a basic form into a recognizable piece of retail packaging. I’ve seen a simple 300 ml PP bottle look far more premium after a two-coat spray and a soft-touch overcap, especially when paired with a 350gsm folding carton.
Refill system design deserves more attention than it usually gets. Replaceable inner bottles, twist-lock closures, modular pumps, and tamper-evident rings all affect how the consumer experiences the refill process. If the refill is annoying, the program loses momentum. If the parts line up cleanly and the hand feel is obvious, customers usually keep using it. That is why custom refillable packaging wholesale has to be judged as a system, not as a container alone. A cap that takes 2.5 turns to open is a different experience from one that takes 1.5, and consumers notice.
Selection should always account for shipping weight, breakage risk, and refill behavior. Glass looks elegant, but it adds freight cost and can raise breakage risk unless the carton design is solid. PET is lighter and easier to ship. HDPE handles many liquid chemistries very well. Aluminum can be ideal for specific premium programs, though decoration and dent resistance still need planning. A shipment from Ningbo to Los Angeles may tolerate lighter packaging better than a local road haul, where stacking pressure is the main concern. The right answer depends on the formula and the route to market, not on trend reports.
| Format | Best For | Typical Strengths | Main Tradeoff |
|---|---|---|---|
| PET / PCR PET bottle | Haircare, lotion, soap | Lightweight, clear, scalable | Lower heat resistance than glass |
| PP jar | Creams, balms, skincare | Good durability, strong closure fit | Less premium look without decoration |
| Glass bottle | Fragrance, premium skincare | High-end feel, stable, reusable | Heavier freight, breakage risk |
| Refill pouch | Soap, detergent, concentrates | Lower shipping weight, refill-friendly | Barrier and sealing must be tested |
| Aluminum container | Premium reusable lines | Distinct look, light protection | Can dent and may need more decoration planning |
Specifications That Matter in Refillable Packaging
Specifications decide whether custom refillable packaging wholesale becomes a dependable program or a troubleshooting exercise. Capacity, neck finish, wall thickness, tolerance range, closure compatibility, and fit with the filling line all need to be checked. A bottle that is off by even 0.3 mm on the neck can create leaks, cross-threading, or torque inconsistency once production starts moving. And yes, that tiny fraction is exactly the kind of thing that ruins a perfectly good afternoon.
Capacity sounds simple, but it affects shipping, shelf presence, and fill accuracy. A 250 ml bottle may have a practical fill range that is not identical to its stated brimful capacity, and a good supplier should be able to show the actual usable volume. Neck finish matters because pumps, caps, and sprayers depend on standardized dimensions, and a custom refillable packaging wholesale project should never assume a closure will fit just because it “looks right” in a sample photo. A 24/410 neck and a 28/410 neck may appear similar in a rendering and still behave very differently on the line.
Wall thickness is another detail buyers sometimes overlook. Thin walls may reduce cost, but they can warp, deform under heat, or feel flimsy in the hand. On a recent visit to a PP injection line in Foshan, I watched a batch of bottle bodies get rejected because the sidewall thickness drifted beyond the agreed tolerance, and the closure torque readings began to scatter. That kind of issue does not show up in marketing mockups. It shows up in production. A 1.1 mm wall on one end of the line and 0.8 mm on the other is enough to change performance.
Testing needs to cover leak resistance, drop testing, torque testing, compatibility testing, and cycle testing for repeated refills. For dispensing products, pump output per stroke matters. For sprays, the spray pattern and droplet size matter. For sensitive formulas, barrier properties and UV protection can be critical. Oxygen sensitivity should be checked if the formula can oxidize, and not every package is equally suited to that job. A serum with vitamin C behaves very differently in an amber glass bottle than in a clear PET one.
When I coordinate with factories, I ask for test fills before any production commitment, especially if the formula includes essential oils, solvents, or active ingredients that may affect seals or plastics. ASTM and ISTA methods are useful reference points for transit and package performance, and buyers should not hesitate to ask which internal test method the factory uses. For transportation and distribution guidance, the ISTA standards library is worth checking, while sustainability-minded teams can review packaging waste and material considerations through the EPA. A 1-meter drop test from six faces is not an exotic request; it is basic risk control.
Compliance and quality checkpoints matter too. If the package touches food or food-adjacent products, you need the proper materials and declarations. Cosmetic-grade applications should be supported by suitable documentation, and carton test requirements need to match the shipping route. A wholesale refillable system may look durable on the bench, but it still has to survive pallet handling, warehouse stacking, and final delivery without cracking or loosening. A carton designed for 12 kg master cartons will not perform like one built for 18 kg pallets.
My advice is to request samples and technical sheets together. Ask for the technical drawing, closure spec, material callout, decoration tolerance, and fill compatibility notes before approval. If the supplier only sends a pretty sample with no data, you are not yet buying a serious custom refillable packaging wholesale program. You are buying a prototype. Data first, romance second.
Custom Refillable Packaging Wholesale Pricing and MOQ
Pricing in custom refillable packaging wholesale depends on material selection, mold ownership, decoration method, closure complexity, order volume, and format. A PET bottle with simple labeling behaves very differently from a custom airless pump with a decorated collar and a custom closure. The farther you move away from standard components, the more each line of the quote deserves scrutiny. A stock 300 ml bottle might land around $0.35 to $0.65 per unit at 5,000 pieces, while a custom airless system can move into the $1.20 to $2.50 range depending on decoration and assembly.
MOQ usually depends on whether you choose stock items, semi-custom builds, or fully custom tooling. Stock packaging with printed decoration can sometimes begin at lower quantities because the core mold already exists. Semi-custom options, such as a standard bottle with a custom cap or branded overmold, usually sit in the middle. Fully custom molds or specialty closures raise the minimum because tooling, setup, and validation have to be spread across the run. In practice, 1,000 to 3,000 pieces is common for stock runs, 5,000 pieces is more realistic for semi-custom decoration, and 10,000 pieces or more is typical for fully custom tooling.
Here is a practical cost framework I use when discussing wholesale packaging with clients. Sample charges are often modest, especially for stock bases, but custom samples may include setup and prototype fees. Tooling fees can be several thousand dollars, depending on complexity. Print setup and color matching add another layer, particularly for multi-color decoration or metallic finishes. Carton packing, inner dividers, and freight can be large enough that they should never be treated as afterthoughts. For example, a simple printed sample set might cost $50 to $120, while a new mold can run from $3,000 to $12,000 depending on cavity count and finish detail.
| Program Type | Typical MOQ | Typical Cost Pressure | Best Use Case |
|---|---|---|---|
| Stock bottle + label | 1,000 to 3,000 pcs | Lowest setup cost | Fast launch, smaller brand test |
| Semi-custom decoration | 3,000 to 10,000 pcs | Moderate print and tooling cost | Brand-led retail packaging |
| Custom closure or pump | 5,000 to 20,000 pcs | Closure tooling and validation | Repeat refill system |
| Fully custom mold | 10,000 to 50,000 pcs | Highest upfront investment | Large recurring wholesale program |
If you want to reduce cost without hurting performance, simplify colors first. Standardize neck finishes across SKUs. Use shared components wherever possible. A common pump base with different decorative caps often costs less than building three entirely different systems. That is one of the smartest ways to approach custom refillable packaging wholesale because it protects the design language while easing procurement. One cap color change can be $0.03 to $0.08 per unit; a new pump architecture can cost ten times that.
Some brands spend heavily on the wrong detail. They will pay for a rare cap color and then choose a closure tolerance that creates fill-line headaches. I would rather see a brand invest in a better pump mechanism, more consistent wall thickness, and a carton design that protects the shipment. That is money well spent in wholesale packaging. A 2 mm foam insert can prevent more damage than a fancy metallic overcap ever will.
Higher upfront investment makes sense when the program is recurring. If you are building a refillable system that will be replenished every 6 to 12 weeks, small per-unit savings compound quickly. A slightly more expensive container may also reduce customer complaints and replacement shipments, which are hidden costs that often escape the initial quote review. That is where custom refillable packaging wholesale becomes a financial decision, not just a packaging decision. If a $0.06 upgrade cuts breakage by 4%, the payback can be obvious by the second reorder.
For buyers comparing suppliers, I recommend getting at least three line-item quotes: one for stock components, one for semi-custom decoration, and one for a fully custom option. That makes it easier to see where your spend is actually going. A trustworthy supplier should be able to break out the shell, closure, decoration, carton, and freight instead of presenting one vague number. Ask for the unit price at 3,000, 5,000, and 10,000 pieces so you can see whether the curve is real or just decorative.
Production Process and Timeline for Wholesale Orders
The production flow for custom refillable packaging wholesale is usually straightforward on paper: inquiry, specification review, sampling, artwork approval, pre-production testing, mass production, inspection, and shipment. The challenge is not the sequence. The challenge is getting all the technical decisions locked before the line is already scheduled. A day lost in proofing often turns into three days lost in production because the plant has to resequence a full batch.
For stock-based packaging, sampling and artwork proofing can move quickly, often within 2 to 5 business days if the supplier has the right components in hand. For fully custom tooling, mold development and sampling add time, and decoration proofs can become the pacing item if the brand is still refining colors or label dimensions. I have seen entire launch schedules slip because the buyer approved the bottle body but kept changing the pump collar artwork. That one still makes me wince a little. If the collar is still changing on day 11, the shipment is already behind.
Typical timelines vary by format, but a practical planning window is often 12 to 15 business days from proof approval for decorated stock packaging, longer if new tooling is involved. If custom molds are needed, add 25 to 40 business days for tooling fabrication and test rounds before mass production begins. That is not a problem if the brand plans for it. It becomes a problem when the launch date was set before the package spec was final. For a first run, I would rather see a realistic 45-day plan than an impossible 20-day promise.
Factory-side checkpoints matter at every stage. Incoming material inspection verifies resin, glass, or aluminum quality. In-process QC checks wall thickness, print alignment, and assembly fit. Final AQL inspection confirms the lot before packing. On a line I visited in Guangdong, the inspection team caught a pump spring inconsistency before shipment, which saved a client from a messy fill run overseas. That kind of discipline is exactly what you want in custom refillable packaging wholesale. A 0.2 mm spring deviation can create an outsized problem when 30,000 units are already boxed.
For brands planning recurring refill cycles, inventory planning is just as important as the initial order. You do not want to launch a refillable concept and then discover that replenishment stock is six weeks behind consumer demand. I advise clients to forecast a buffer for the first two refill cycles, especially if the product is moving into retail packaging with multiple channel requirements. A 15% safety stock can be the difference between a clean second order and a scramble.
Good communication shortens timelines. If you provide exact capacity, finish size, decoration file format, carton count, and target ship date up front, the supplier can quote more accurately and schedule production more intelligently. If you leave the spec open-ended, the order usually becomes a chain of assumptions. That is how lead times stretch. A clear brief can cut at least one revision cycle, which is often where the real delay hides.
Why Choose Us for Custom Refillable Packaging Wholesale
Custom Logo Things is set up to support brands that want a manufacturing partner, not just a pass-through seller. In my experience, that distinction matters because custom refillable packaging wholesale projects need technical coordination as much as they need price competitiveness. We work across multiple production lines and component types, including injection molding, blow molding, glass sourcing, aluminum finishing, and decorative printing, so we can match the structure to the product rather than forcing the product into one factory’s limited catalog. We also coordinate with plants in Shenzhen, Dongguan, and Ningbo depending on the best fit for the structure and order size.
That flexibility helps when a brand is building a family of products. One client came to us wanting a serum dropper, a lotion bottle, and a refill pouch that all shared the same visual language. Instead of pushing three unrelated containers, we mapped a common finish, aligned the color story, and standardized the label placement. The result looked much stronger on shelf and gave the brand cleaner sourcing across the line. That is a real packaging design advantage, not just a cosmetic one. The visual system held across 30 ml, 250 ml, and 1 liter formats without feeling forced.
We also place a lot of value on technical support. Material selection, structural fit, closure torque, and refill performance are not side notes. They are the core of the job. If a supplier cannot explain why a PP cap is better than HDPE for a specific liquid, or why a 28/410 neck finish may be more stable than a custom nonstandard finish, I would be cautious. Buyers deserve more than a catalog screenshot. They deserve a supplier who can talk through a 350gsm C1S artboard carton and a pump head with equal confidence.
Because wholesale programs need consistency, we watch quality control closely from sample through shipment. That means coordination with the plant, document review, print proofs, and production checks tied to the actual order specifications. It also means direct communication when something needs clarification. I would rather tell a client that a sample needs another round than let a weak fit move into mass production and create a costly delay. A day spent correcting a 24/410 closure is cheaper than a week spent replacing 20,000 bad units.
Packaging validation matters too. A refill system may need cycle testing, leak checks, or transit checks before it can be approved. We help buyers align those checks with what the product actually needs, not with a generic checklist. If the formula is sensitive, the closure and barrier properties matter more. If the package will sit in retail packaging for months, decoration durability and shelf abrasion become part of the conversation. In some cases, a 48-hour heat aging test at 45°C tells you more than a polished pitch deck ever will.
For buyers who want to see adjacent capabilities, our Custom Packaging Products and our Wholesale Programs are the right starting points. They give you a sense of how we structure supply, decoration, and order planning across different packaging formats. If your refill concept eventually needs outer cartons, we can also coordinate custom printed boxes so the primary pack and secondary pack match in look and handling. A 350gsm C1S folding carton with spot UV can elevate the system without complicating the pack line.
We are not trying to oversell the idea that every refillable package is simple. It is not. But when the specs are clear, the structure is chosen well, and the supplier understands production discipline, custom refillable packaging wholesale becomes a dependable way to build margin and customer loyalty over time. That is especially true for brands selling into the U.S., EU, and Southeast Asia, where repeat purchase and presentation both matter.
How to Place Your First Custom Refillable Packaging Wholesale Order
The easiest way to start a custom refillable packaging wholesale order is to prepare a clean brief before you ask for pricing. Include the product type, target volume, formula viscosity if you know it, closure preference, refill system preference, artwork files, and your expected launch market. The more precise the brief, the faster the quote will be, and the less likely you are to get a generic response. If you can share exact dimensions, such as 63 mm x 42 mm for a compact jar or 24/410 for a bottle neck, the quote will be sharper immediately.
Then compare suppliers on the things that actually affect the project. Look at material options, MOQ, lead time, testing standards, decoration quality, and whether the supplier can explain the structure without guessing. A vendor who only talks about appearance is usually not the best fit for a repeat-use program. A vendor who can speak to neck finish, torque, and transit protection probably understands the work better. Ask how they handle the sample stage, whether they can quote landed cost to your port, and whether they can support both refill containers and secondary cartons.
Before you approve samples, confirm sample match, carton configuration, and labeling requirements. If the package ships in inner trays or dividers, make sure those are tested as part of the order. If the label needs a specific adhesive for glass, PET, or aluminum, say so early. If the refill system will be filled on a particular machine, tell the supplier what that machine needs, because fill-line fit can save a great deal of trouble later. A label that lifts after 72 hours in cold storage is a problem you want to catch in sampling, not in transit.
For buyers launching their first program, I recommend starting with one hero SKU and one refill format before expanding. That keeps testing manageable and gives you actual consumer feedback on the closure, pump, or pouch. Once the first refill loop is proven, it becomes much easier to scale the system across more SKUs. That is the smartest way to grow custom refillable packaging wholesale without stretching the team thin. A single 250 ml launch can teach you more than a 12-SKU rollout ever will.
A good next step is to request a pricing review with exact dimensions, decoration notes, and forecast volume. If you already know you need Product Packaging That can handle repeated use, say so plainly. That helps the quotation reflect the real requirement instead of a generic one-time retail pack. Then move into samples, test fills, and a final approval cycle with discipline. A 5,000-piece forecast for the first order is far easier to manage than a vague “as needed” request.
From there, the process is simple: inquiry, sample, approval, production, inspection, shipment. No drama needed. Just clean specs, realistic timing, and a supplier who knows what it takes to keep a refillable program running. That is the practical route to custom refillable packaging wholesale that supports your brand and your margins. If you can keep the first proof cycle under 3 revisions, you are already ahead of many launches.
FAQs
What is the typical MOQ for custom refillable packaging wholesale?
MOQ depends on whether you choose stock packaging, semi-custom decoration, or fully custom tooling. Printed or labeled stock items usually start at 1,000 to 3,000 pieces, while semi-custom programs often begin around 5,000 pieces. Custom molds and specialty closures usually need 10,000 pieces or more because tooling, setup, and validation must be spread across the run.
Which materials work best for custom refillable packaging wholesale?
PET and PCR PET are common for lightweight bottles and refill systems. PP and HDPE are strong choices for pumps, caps, and chemical-resistant applications. Glass and aluminum suit premium programs, while refill pouches can reduce shipping weight and secondary waste. If the formula is sensitive to light, amber glass or aluminum often performs better than clear PET.
How do I know if a refillable package will work with my product?
You should test viscosity, chemical compatibility, closure torque, and leak resistance before production. For pump and spray systems, check output, spray pattern, and refill cycle performance. A sample fill test is the fastest way to confirm real-world compatibility, and a 24-hour and 72-hour leak check will catch problems that a quick bench test can miss.
What affects pricing the most in custom refillable packaging wholesale?
Material choice, decoration method, tooling, and order volume have the biggest impact. Complex refill mechanisms and premium finishes usually increase cost. Standardizing components across multiple SKUs can reduce total program spend, and line-item quotes for 3,000, 5,000, and 10,000 pieces help expose the true cost curve.
How long does a custom refillable packaging wholesale order take?
Timeline depends on sampling, decoration approval, and whether new tooling is required. Stock-based orders can often move in 12 to 15 business days from proof approval, while fully custom programs may need 25 to 40 business days for tooling plus test rounds. Clear specifications and quick approval cycles help keep production on schedule.
If you are ready to move forward, gather your specs, compare the options, and request a pricing review that reflects the real product requirements. That is the cleanest way to buy custom refillable packaging wholesale, and it is the approach I would recommend whether you are launching one premium SKU or building a full refillable line for long-term wholesale replenishment. If your project needs a 250 ml bottle, a 1 liter refill pouch, and a carton built from 350gsm C1S artboard, say that up front and you will get a much better answer.