How to Start Packaging Supply Business: Step-by-Step

If you want to learn how to Start Packaging Supply business, I’ll tell you the same thing I’ve told owners standing next to a corrugator in Cleveland, a die cutter in Indianapolis, or a case erector humming along in northern New Jersey: the winners usually do not begin with a giant warehouse and 2,000 SKUs. They begin with one dependable product line, one converting partner who actually answers the phone the same business day, and one customer problem they can solve better than a broadline distributor shipping from three states away.

I remember watching one small operator in Ohio get started with what looked, frankly, like a glorified storage room, a leased 1,800-square-foot unit, and a decent phone manner. No fancy office. No polished brand strategy deck. Just a narrow focus and a stubborn refusal to overcomplicate things. He started with 32 ECT corrugated cartons, one pallet rack system, and a spreadsheet that tracked reorder points at 250 units. Honestly, I think that is where a lot of people get tripped up. They want to look bigger than they are before they’ve sold a single carton. The market does not care about your ambitions nearly as much as it cares about whether you can deliver boxes that show up on time, undamaged, and in the right board grade.

That is the real starting point for how to start packaging supply business: not “sell boxes,” but build a supply operation that can source, stock, customize, and deliver packaging materials without losing money on freight, damage, or slow-paying accounts. I’ve watched small resellers grow into respected suppliers because they focused on branded packaging, product packaging, and repeatable fulfillment, while other startups tried to carry every size of mailer, carton, tape, and insert on day one and buried themselves in dead inventory. Dead inventory, by the way, is a terribly cheerful phrase for “money sitting there doing absolutely nothing.”

At Custom Logo Things, the smartest launches I’ve seen all had the same pattern: a tight niche, a practical pricing model, and a supplier network that could handle custom printed boxes when the order size was right. A common starter path is to quote 3,000 to 5,000 pieces, approve proofs in 24 to 72 hours, and target production windows of 12 to 15 business days from proof approval for straightforward folding cartons. If you’re serious about how to start packaging supply business, this is the kind of ground-level plan that keeps you from learning expensive lessons the hard way.

How to start packaging supply business and what it really takes

A packaging supply business is not just a “box business.” It is a mix of sourcing, stocking, customizing, and distributing materials like corrugated cartons, mailers, inserts, labels, tapes, stretch film, and retail packaging. In practical terms, you are solving the packaging needs of businesses that ship, store, display, protect, or present products, and that means you are part logistics shop, part sales operation, and part quality-control desk. A supplier in Charlotte, for example, may handle same-day pickup on plain stock mailers while outsourcing custom printed rigid boxes to a converter in Dallas, Texas, or Qingdao, China, depending on quantity and deadline.

I learned this the hard way years ago while visiting a mid-sized converter outside Atlanta, Georgia. They started with one product line, a 32 ECT corrugated mailer, and one flexographic printer who could hit repeat color standards within a Delta E tolerance buyers could actually live with. They didn’t even rent a full warehouse at first; they used a 2,400-square-foot back room, a clean pallet rack setup, and a disciplined reorder system that triggered at 1.5 months of demand. That little operation outperformed bigger competitors because they never promised what they could not source in time. It was almost annoying how well it worked.

When you think through how to start packaging supply business, it helps to understand the market roles:

• Reseller: Buys packaging goods and sells them with markup, often stocking common items like cartons, tape, and void fill. A good starter SKU might be a 12" x 10" x 8" corrugated carton priced at $0.68 per unit at 1,000 pieces.
• Distributor: Holds inventory, manages fulfillment, and often supports recurring supply contracts for ecommerce or manufacturing customers. Many distributors keep at least 90 days of fast-moving SKUs on hand.
• Broker: Connects buyers with manufacturers or converters, usually with lower inventory risk and more focus on quotes, specs, and relationships. Brokers often start with a laptop, a phone, and sample kits costing $150 to $400.
• Manufacturer: Converts raw material into finished packaging, such as corrugated board, folding cartons, rigid chipboard boxes, or custom inserts. A small converting line in Ahmedabad, India, or Dongguan, China, can handle higher volume but requires far more capital.

Many beginners get stuck because they try to be all four at once. If you are learning how to start packaging supply business, pick the role that matches your cash, your contacts, and your tolerance for operations. A broker can launch with lower overhead and may only need $5,000 to $15,000 to cover a website, sample requests, CRM, and travel. A stock-and-ship distributor needs storage, picking discipline, forklifts or pallet jacks, and working capital. A manufacturer needs equipment, waste management, skilled operators, and a far bigger investment, often $250,000 or more before the first serious production run. There is no prize for suffering through all of it at the same time.

Your customer base may include ecommerce brands in Los Angeles, restaurants in Chicago, cosmetics companies in Miami, fulfillment centers in Louisville, subscription box brands in Brooklyn, and local manufacturers in Raleigh that need custom printed boxes or plain shipping cartons. I’ve sat in meetings where a cosmetics founder cared deeply about unboxing presentation, while a fulfillment manager only wanted exact dimensions and a reliable case count. Both buy packaging, but they buy for very different reasons, and that matters a lot when you build your offer.

Margin expectations also matter. Some stock items may only yield 12% to 22% gross margin if you are competing on price, while custom work can push 28% to 40% if your quoting is disciplined and your service is strong. A 5,000-piece mailer box run might carry a better per-order profit than a 200-piece rush order, even if the latter sounds attractive. Packaging is not a set-it-and-forget-it business. It is a relationship business, a follow-up business, and a business where freight damage or a missed die-line can wipe out a week of profit very quickly.

“The supplier who answers the reprint problem in two hours often keeps the customer longer than the supplier with the cheapest quote.”

That line came from a buyer I met in a Chicago fulfillment hub, and it has stayed with me because it is true. When people ask me how to start packaging supply business, I tell them to prepare for service demands, not just product sourcing. Your first real decisions will be niche, suppliers, storage model, pricing, sales channels, and fulfillment workflow, and each of those decisions has a dollar figure attached to it whether you see it yet or not.

How the packaging supply business works from order to delivery

The order cycle in packaging is more structured than many newcomers expect. A lead comes in, you qualify the need, quote the job, send a sample or proof, confirm the specs, place the procurement order, receive or manufacture the goods, store them safely, pick and pack the order, ship it, and then support the customer if anything needs adjustment. That sounds simple on paper, but every step has one or two places where mistakes turn into real costs, especially once freight, artwork, and pallet handling enter the picture.

Here is a practical view of the workflow when you are figuring out how to start packaging supply business:

1. Lead generation: A prospect asks about mailers, corrugated cartons, labels, or branded packaging. A typical first inquiry may be for 1,000 plain mailers or 2,500 custom printed inserts.
2. Quote: You calculate material cost, freight, labor, storage, and margin. A quote might be valid for 7 days if paper prices are moving fast.
3. Sample approval: The customer checks fit, print, board strength, or finish. A proof round usually takes 1 to 3 business days for simple artwork.
4. Procurement: You buy from a mill, converter, printer, or trading partner. Domestic corrugated board often comes from mills in Georgia, Wisconsin, or Ontario.
5. Warehousing: Inventory is stored, protected from moisture, and tracked by SKU. Corrugated cartons should be kept off the floor on pallets at least 4 inches high.
6. Picking and packing: Orders are staged, palletized, and labeled correctly. One mislabeled pallet in a 12-pallet shipment can create a costly rework.
7. Shipment: Freight is arranged, often by parcel, LTL, or dedicated truck. A pallet moving from Los Angeles to Phoenix may cost far less than the same pallet moving to Maine.
8. Post-sale support: Reorders, artwork updates, and claims are handled quickly. Many buyers expect a response within 2 business hours, not 2 days.

Custom packaging adds extra moving parts. A simple die-line mistake on a folding carton can delay the job by a week, especially if the file needs correction before offset printing or digital print setup. If your customer wants retail packaging with hot foil stamping, embossing, or a matte aqueous coating, you need to explain those choices clearly because each finish changes the look, the cost, and the production timeline. A hot foil stamp adds both setup time and cost, and can push a 10,000-piece order from 10 business days to 15 or 18 business days depending on press availability.

On the shop floor, I’ve watched operators inspect corrugated board for flute consistency, glue joints, and cut tolerances before a run ships. They’ll check whether a 32 ECT shipper actually holds up under stacking pressure, or whether a rigid chipboard box has the corner strength needed for luxury goods. A 350gsm C1S artboard folding carton, for example, can feel premium in hand, but only if the coating, scoring, and folding tolerances are aligned. That kind of quality control is not glamorous, but it saves you from expensive returns and customer complaints. Nobody remembers the perfect box. Everyone remembers the crushed one.

Common materials and processes show up again and again in this business. Corrugated board is the workhorse for shipping cartons. Kraft paper is often used for wraps, mailers, and void fill. Folding cartons are popular for consumer goods. Rigid chipboard is common in premium presentation packaging. Print methods include flexographic printing for higher-volume simplicity, offset printing for sharp graphics, and digital printing for shorter runs or variable artwork. Die-cutting, lamination, and hot foil stamping complete the picture when the customer wants strong package branding. A cosmetics carton might use 300gsm to 350gsm artboard in Shenzhen or Guangzhou, while an ecommerce shipper in Nashville may only need 44 ECT corrugate and a single-color logo.

For standards and compliance, I always recommend that new suppliers get familiar with resources like the ISTA packaging transport testing standards and the EPA recycling guidance. If you sell into eco-conscious or regulated markets, those references matter, because claims around recycled content, recyclability, and transit performance need to be supportable. A customer in California may ask whether a mailer is curbside recyclable, while a buyer in Toronto may want certification language that matches local packaging disclosure rules.

Here is the part that separates smooth operations from messy ones: accurate communication. When a customer says “I need a box for our product,” that is not enough. You need exact internal dimensions, product weight, stacking conditions, print coverage, and shipping method. I’ve seen one missing eighth of an inch create a fit issue that affected every pallet in a 1,200-unit run. That mistake is expensive whether you’re selling to ecommerce brands or industrial clients. The difference between 7.875 inches and 8.000 inches can decide whether an insert holds or rattles.

How to start packaging supply business: key factors to plan first

If you are serious about how to start packaging supply business, choose your niche first. I’ve seen new owners try to sell everything from pastry boxes to foam inserts to stretch wrap, and the result is often a shelf full of slow-moving inventory and a quote desk that never stops spinning. A tighter focus gives you better supplier relationships, cleaner pricing, and a reputation that actually sticks. A supplier in Phoenix who specializes in 12" x 9" x 4" mailers and branded inserts can often look more competent than a generalist carrying 300 SKUs and answering every question with “maybe.”

Some niches are easier to enter than others. Ecommerce shipping supplies, for example, can be built around corrugated cartons, mailers, tape, labels, and inserts. Luxury packaging may center on rigid boxes, magnetic closures, soft-touch lamination, and foil stamping. Food-safe packaging is more technical because you may need grease resistance, food-contact compliance, or specific barrier properties. Each one has different customer expectations and different lead-time pressure. A bakery box order in Denver may need a 10-day turnaround, while a luxury candle brand in San Francisco may accept 21 business days if the print finish is strong enough.

Startup cost is where many people underestimate the challenge of how to start packaging supply business. If you stock inventory, you will need cash for goods, storage, freight, sampling, software, and sales. If you broker custom jobs, you will still need cash for samples, artwork management, and possibly deposits to suppliers before your customer pays you. Packaging can strain working capital fast because suppliers often want money upfront while your buyers want net 30 or net 45 terms. That mismatch is not glamorous, but it is very real. A $12,000 inventory buy and a 45-day receivables cycle can pinch a small launch harder than most founders expect.

Your pricing structure should match your operating model. A stock distributor may use standard markup on wholesale costs, with tiered discounts for volume. A custom packaging broker may quote per project, then add service fees for artwork changes, proofing, or rush handling. A recurring contract customer may need a fixed price tied to monthly volumes, but that only works if your landed cost is well understood. If a 5,000-piece custom mailer lands at $0.42 per unit from a converter in Vietnam and $0.18 per unit in freight and duties, your sales price has to reflect both numbers, not just the factory quote.

Operating model	Startup cost	Inventory risk	Best fit
Broker	Lower, often under $10,000 excluding sales tools	Low	Custom printed boxes, project work, relationship selling
Stock distributor	Moderate to high, often $25,000 to $150,000+	Moderate	Fast-moving cartons, mailers, tape, labels
Hybrid model	Moderate, depending on SKU count	Moderate	Repeat items plus select branded packaging
Manufacturer	High, often $250,000+	Lower finished inventory, higher capital equipment risk	Long-term production contracts, converted materials

Lead-time consistency matters more than beginners think. A supplier who can reliably make 10,000 mailer boxes in 14 to 18 business days from proof approval is often more valuable than a cheaper source with erratic schedules. I’ve had clients choose a slightly higher quote because they had a launch date tied to a retail promotion in Orlando or a trade show in Las Vegas and could not afford a missed delivery window. Panic is not a pricing strategy, but it does show up in purchasing meetings.

Compliance is another non-negotiable part of how to start packaging supply business. If you sell food packaging, ask about food-contact standards and migration concerns. If you make recycled-content claims, make sure the paperwork supports them. If you work with FSC-certified paper, you should understand chain-of-custody basics. A good reference is the Forest Stewardship Council. Claims that are vague or unsupported can hurt trust quickly, especially in markets like the UK, Australia, and parts of the European Union where buyers increasingly ask for documented sourcing.

Packaging is technical enough that customers expect you to know the difference between board grades, coatings, and print methods. A buyer asking for a 350gsm C1S artboard folding carton with soft-touch lamination and spot UV is not just buying a box; they are buying presentation, protection, and a very specific customer experience. If you can speak that language clearly, you will stand out fast. A buyer in New York may want matte lamination for a skincare line, while a buyer in Houston may prioritize crush resistance and shipping density.

Step-by-step guide to launching your packaging supply business

Step 1: validate one niche before you buy inventory

Interview at least five target customers before you spend on stock. Ask what they order monthly, what fails in their current packaging, whether they need custom printed boxes or plain stock items, and which suppliers frustrate them. When I visited a regional fulfillment center in Dallas, Texas, the manager said his biggest pain was not price; it was inconsistent carton sizing that created wasted void fill and slower packing. That kind of detail tells you exactly what to sell. If three of the five buyers say they need 1,000 to 2,500 units per order, that is your first clue on MOQ.

Step 2: build a supplier network with backup options

For each major category, line up at least one primary source and one backup source. A domestic corrugated converter in Ohio or Pennsylvania can cover urgent jobs, while an overseas partner in Ho Chi Minh City or Ningbo may fit better for larger runs or package branding projects. The smartest suppliers I know keep a shortlist for cartons, mailers, labels, inserts, and tape so they can absorb a delay without disappointing the customer. Because nothing tests a business quite like a supplier saying “we’re running late” with a calm little smile. If you can get a backup quote within 24 hours, you will sleep better.

Step 3: choose your operating model with clear rules

You can run stock-and-ship, dropship coordination, private-label supply, or custom packaging brokerage. Stock-and-ship gives you tighter control but more inventory pressure. Dropship coordination reduces warehouse cost but can complicate quality control. Brokerage works well for how to start packaging supply business with limited funds, especially if you are strong in sales and quoting. Private label is useful once you have recurring demand and know which sizes actually move. A practical rule: if you cannot explain your model in 30 seconds, it is probably too broad.

Step 4: set up the back office correctly

Register the business, get the right insurance, and put bookkeeping in place before the first order lands. I would not skip inventory tracking software, even if you only have 20 SKUs to start. A simple barcode system, pallet labels, and basic lot tracking can save hours when a customer asks for a reorder or when you need to trace a damaged shipment. Keep written SOPs for receiving, counting, storing, and shipping, because shortcuts turn into costly disputes later. A $49-per-month inventory tool is cheaper than one lost pallet in Newark.

Step 5: create samples and a simple sell sheet

Sample kits sell packaging better than generic descriptions. Show cardboard thickness, print finish, closure style, and possible dimensions. If you’re selling retail packaging or branded packaging, include mockups or one actual prototype. I’ve watched buyers make a decision in under five minutes once they could hold the material, compare the coating, and see the print accuracy next to their product. People say they buy on logic. Then they run their fingers over a soft-touch box and suddenly become poets. A simple sell sheet with six SKUs, unit pricing, MOQ, and lead time can outperform a glossy 20-page brochure.

Step 6: start small and test the quote process

Launch with a small catalog, then test your quoting, ordering, and follow-up process on real opportunities. If you can quote a 5,000-piece mailer box run, manage proof approval, and deliver the shipment without losing track of the freight terms, you are ready to add more SKUs. How to start packaging supply business is less about building a giant catalog and more about proving you can complete one clean transaction, then repeat it. A clean first run in 14 business days is better than promising 50 products and missing every deadline.

One client meeting still stands out to me. A founder in the beauty sector wanted to enter wholesale with custom rigid boxes, but their first supplier had ignored the insert fit. The products rattled in transit, and the retailer rejected the shipment. We rebuilt the package with tighter insert tolerances and a better tray construction, using a 2mm rigid board wrapped in printed paper from a converter in Shenzhen, and suddenly the same line looked premium and performed properly. That is why how to start packaging supply business should always begin with fit, function, and repeatability, not only art files.

As you launch, keep a short checklist for every order:

• Confirmed dimensions and board grade
• Approved proof or sample
• Production lead time and freight window
• Payment terms and deposit schedule
• Quality check at receiving
• Reorder contact and timing

If you need a starting assortment, the catalog at Custom Packaging Products can help you understand which styles are practical for a first launch, especially if you want to balance stock items with custom packaging options. A starter mix might include kraft mailers, corrugated shippers, tissue paper, and one premium box style such as a magnetic closure rigid box.

Cost and pricing: what it takes to make the numbers work

Let’s talk numbers, because how to start packaging supply business only works if the pricing model survives reality. Your startup costs typically fall into several buckets: inventory, samples, shipping, storage, branding, labor, and working capital. Even a lean brokerage model can need several thousand dollars for samples, software, phone systems, website setup, and deposits. A stocked distributor can spend far more just to fill the first shelf. For example, 2,000 mailers at $0.24 each, 1,000 cartons at $0.68 each, and sample kits at $250 can quickly push a launch budget north of $1,500 before advertising starts.

Pricing changes based on paper grade, board strength, print method, finish, and order quantity. A plain kraft mailer ordered in volume is one thing. A rigid box with magnet closure, foil stamp, and insert tray is something else entirely. The latter needs more setup, more handling, and usually more quality checks, which is why quote discipline matters so much in how to start packaging supply business. A 5,000-piece folding carton in 350gsm C1S artboard may land around $0.45 to $0.90 per unit depending on print coverage and finishing, while a 1,000-piece run can be far higher per unit because setup costs stay fixed.

Hidden costs show up in freight, palletization, damage allowances, remakes, and rush production fees. I have seen a new supplier quote a job based only on factory price, then lose money because the shipment had to move by LTL with limited stackability and residential delivery fees. If you do not calculate true landed cost, you can win the order and still lose margin. That sort of thing has a way of appearing right after you think you’ve done everything correctly, which is deeply rude. A carton produced for $0.28 per unit can become $0.46 landed once pallet wrap, LTL, and handling are added.

Here is a practical pricing framework many new suppliers can use:

• Cost-plus: Good for standard stock items with predictable handling.
• Value-based: Better for custom packaging, artwork management, and tight deadlines.
• Tiered volume pricing: Useful when customers reorder cartons, labels, or mailers every month.
• Service-fee add-ons: Helpful for sample development, extra proof rounds, or rush freight coordination.

MOQ strategy matters as well. Smaller orders often require a higher per-unit price because setup and handling costs are spread across fewer pieces. I once negotiated with a converter who could do 3,000 folding cartons at a fair unit cost, but if the customer dropped to 1,000 pieces, the price jumped nearly 38% because the press setup, die-cutting, and packing work stayed the same. That is not greed; it is how the math works. For a 10,000-piece run, the price might fall from $0.62 to $0.39 per unit simply because the setup cost is amortized more efficiently.

Pricing factor	Low impact example	High impact example
Material	Standard kraft corrugate	Heavy rigid chipboard with specialty wrap
Printing	One-color flexographic print	Full-color offset print with foil stamping
Quantity	10,000 units	500 units
Fulfillment	Dock pickup	Residential delivery with liftgate

Tracking landed cost is the habit that protects your business. Include the factory price, freight, duty if applicable, warehousing, labor, damage reserve, and sales time. Once you know your true cost, you can price confidently and avoid underquoting large repeat orders. That discipline is one of the biggest separators between a healthy packaging supplier and a busy one that barely survives. A seller who tracks every pallet can usually spot margin drift within a week instead of a quarter.

Common mistakes new packaging suppliers make

The first mistake I see is SKU overload. New owners try to sell every size and style immediately, then discover that slow-moving inventory eats cash and floor space. If you are learning how to start packaging supply business, it is smarter to lead with a narrow line of fast-moving cartons, mailers, tape, or labels than to buy twenty categories and hope demand appears. A warehouse in Atlanta can look full and still be 60% dead stock if the mix is wrong.

The second mistake is ignoring lead time. Custom printed boxes often involve artwork approval, proof rounds, material procurement, and production scheduling. If a supplier promises ten days when the converter needs eighteen, the whole business starts on shaky ground. I once watched a startup lose a cosmetics client because they underquoted the timeline by nearly a week and missed a retail launch in Minneapolis. Nothing builds confidence like showing up late, apparently.

Another common error is underestimating freight damage and handling risk. Packaging may seem like a durable product, but large cartons can crush, specialty boxes can scuff, and inserts can warp if stored poorly. If you don’t specify pallet wrap, corner boards, carton counts, and storage conditions, you can create avoidable claims. A 40" x 48" pallet wrapped with one thin layer of stretch film is asking for trouble on a humid July day in Memphis.

Many new suppliers also quote from supplier price alone rather than total landed cost and service time. That means they ignore the cost of inspection, communication, remakes, and delayed freight. A cheap quote that creates three hours of correction work is not cheap. It is expensive in a different way. A supplier in Portland who saves $0.03 per unit but adds two extra proof rounds may erase the savings instantly.

Skipping sample approval is another classic mistake. If the customer needs exact dimensions for product packaging, don’t guess. Measure the item, test the sample, and confirm the closure style before production starts. A half-inch gap can turn a premium-looking insert into a noisy, unstable fit. For a subscription box in Brooklyn, that gap can mean returns, complaints, and a bad review with a photo attached.

Finally, do not disappear after the first sale. Repeat business is where the real profit lives. In my experience, the best packaging suppliers build reorder reminders, seasonal planning notes, and artwork refresh check-ins. That steady follow-up is one of the quiet answers to how to start packaging supply business successfully. A simple note 30 days before peak season can turn into a $14,000 reorder.

Expert tips to grow faster and finish with a solid next step plan

My strongest advice is to launch with one focused offer. For example, pair one box style with matching inserts or one line of Mailers with Tape and labels. That smaller catalog makes it easier to explain your value, quote accurately, and develop credibility. Once you have repeat orders, add adjacent products instead of trying to chase every packaging trend at once. A launch in Houston with three core SKUs and one premium custom option is easier to manage than a 40-item catalog with no sales history.

Track the numbers that actually matter: repeat order frequency, average order value, gross margin by SKU, quote-to-close ratio, and damage claims. If one SKU looks popular but carries weak margin because of freight or handling, it may be more trouble than it is worth. Packaging businesses can look busy while quietly leaking profit, so the dashboard matters. Even a simple monthly report can reveal that one 2,000-piece carton line is producing 70% of your headaches and only 12% of your profit.

Partnering with a packaging manufacturer while keeping fast-moving stock items in your own inventory is often the best middle ground. You get the flexibility to quote custom jobs without carrying every custom SKU on your shelf. That setup works especially well for custom packaging, retail packaging, and higher-value package branding projects. It also makes it easier to source from multiple regions, such as a domestic partner in Ohio for rush work and a converter in Shenzhen for larger, lower-cost runs.

Build a follow-up system early. Reorder reminders, seasonal packaging planning, and artwork refresh check-ins can turn one-time customers into predictable accounts. I’ve seen small suppliers grow faster simply because they called back in six weeks with a replenishment suggestion and a clean updated quote. That kind of attention is easy to overlook and hard to replace. A 15-minute follow-up can generate a second order worth $3,000 or more.

So if you are still asking how to start packaging supply business, here is the next-step plan I would use on day one:

1. Interview five target customers and write down their actual carton or mailer pain points.
2. Request quotes from at least two suppliers for each core category.
3. Build a starter catalog with only the products you can support well.
4. Create one sample order flow and test it from quote to delivery.
5. Set payment terms, storage rules, and reorder tracking before launch.

There is no need to make this harder than it is. How to start packaging supply business comes down to focused execution, reliable sourcing, disciplined pricing, and a real understanding of what customers need when they buy packaging from you. Start narrow, measure everything, and keep your promises tight. That is how you build a packaging supply business that lasts, whether your first shipment leaves from Newark, Ontario, or Monterrey.