Custom Seed Paper Packaging Wholesale: Eco-Friendly Value

Custom seed paper packaging wholesale is one of the few packaging categories I’ve seen that can do three jobs at once: sell the product, support the brand story, and not get tossed in the trash five seconds after unboxing. I’ve stood on factory floors in Shenzhen and Dongguan holding seed paper sleeves that looked simple on a mockup and quietly expensive in production. A basic 90 x 140 mm insert card can be priced from about $0.15 per unit for 5,000 pieces when the print is one-color and the seed mix is standard wildflower. Add folding, die-cutting, or a special herb blend, and the quote climbs fast. That’s the point. Buyers remember it. Brands can sell with it. And yes, custom seed paper packaging wholesale can be profitable when you spec it correctly instead of treating it like cute craft material.

Custom seed paper packaging wholesale works because it gives a brand something customers can touch, keep, and plant. That beats another generic mailer with a logo slapped on it. Honestly, I think too many brands waste money on loud packaging that says nothing. Seed paper packaging says something useful: the company paid attention. For beauty sets in Los Angeles, wellness kits in Austin, tea launches in London, stationery boxes in Melbourne, event mailers in Singapore, and gift sets shipped from Shenzhen, that tactile detail matters. It feels intentional. It feels premium. And with the right print setup, custom seed paper packaging wholesale can fit into repeat orders instead of just one-off launches.

Now, let’s be realistic for a second. Seed paper is not magic. It is not a substitute for every carton on earth. But for brands that want branded packaging with a sustainability angle, custom seed paper packaging wholesale hits a nice middle ground between message and margin. I’ve watched clients win reorders because the customer kept the insert card on a desk for two weeks instead of throwing it away on day one. That little delay changes brand recall. It also makes the packaging feel like part of the product experience, not dead weight. And yes, I’ve also watched a buyer baby a sample card like it was a museum artifact, which was both flattering and mildly absurd.

Why Custom Seed Paper Packaging Wholesale Actually Sells

I’ll say it plainly: custom seed paper packaging wholesale sells because people hate wasting packaging, and they like things that feel thoughtful. Seed paper is one of those rare formats customers actually keep. I’ve seen it in a client meeting with a skincare brand in Los Angeles, California, and again with a tea brand in Vancouver, British Columbia. Their unboxing test had three options: a standard insert card, a recycled paper card, and a seed paper thank-you note. The seed paper version got passed around the room twice. Nobody did that with the plain card. That’s not “trend” behavior. That’s buyer psychology, and it showed up in a room where the brand planned 20,000 units for Q4.

The business value is straightforward. Custom seed paper packaging wholesale supports sustainability claims without sounding like a spreadsheet wrote the copy. It adds texture, weight, and a slightly handmade feel that reads as premium instead of cheap. It also turns packaging into a planted keepsake, which gives the customer a reason to remember the brand after the product is gone. That matters for launches, seasonal campaigns, subscription boxes, and gift packaging where the box itself is part of the experience. A 350gsm C1S artboard carton with a seed paper sleeve around it can feel more premium than a heavier uncoated box if the print and fit are clean.

It works best for brands with a strong unboxing moment. Beauty. Wellness. Tea. Stationery. Event kits. Gift brands. Small retail packaging runs. Even some direct-to-consumer mailers if the contents are light enough and the brand knows how to use the format. I’ve seen custom seed paper packaging wholesale used as a sleeve around a rigid box, as an insert card with care instructions, and as a wrap for a sample kit. A 110 x 160 mm insert can change the perceived value by a few dollars in the customer’s head, especially if it is printed on seeded stock with one clean logo and a short planting note. That is not a tiny thing. In packaging, perception is margin.

Wholesale pricing is what makes this format realistic for repeat campaigns. A one-off custom piece can be cute and expensive. A wholesale program can be planned, repeated, and budgeted. That matters for seasonal runs where the same die line and print setup can be reused. I’ve sat through supplier negotiations in Guangzhou where a client wanted a plantable sleeve for a holiday set, then another run for a spring launch, then another for a PR kit. The difference between a smart custom seed paper packaging wholesale program and a headache was whether we planned the format for reuse from day one. I still remember one supplier sighing so loudly at the spreadsheet that the entire table went quiet. Very expressive. Very unhelpful.

And credibility matters. A buyer can smell a gimmick from across the room. If the seed paper looks flimsy, overprinted, or randomly chosen, it reads like a craft fair idea that wandered into a board meeting. When custom seed paper packaging wholesale is done well, it looks intentional. The logo is clean. The layout is restrained. The seed choice matches the brand. The packaging speaks the same visual language as the rest of the product packaging, whether that brand is shipping from Portland, Oregon, or a contract manufacturer in Foshan.

Environmental messaging should be handled carefully. Yes, seed paper is biodegradable and plantable. Yes, it can support a greener story. No, that does not mean every brand should slap “eco” all over the box and call it a strategy. I’ve seen buyers overpromise and then get burned when the packaging was used in a region where the seed mix was a poor fit or the user never planted it. Custom seed paper packaging wholesale works best when the brand can use it consistently and honestly, not as a one-time virtue signal. If your audience in Texas, Dubai, or Seoul is not likely to plant basil seeds, don’t pretend that a leafy label fixes the problem.

What Custom Seed Paper Packaging Includes

Custom seed paper packaging wholesale is not just one product. It’s a family of formats, and the format you choose changes both price and performance. The most common pieces I see are custom seed paper boxes, sleeves, inserts, thank-you cards, hang tags, belly bands, and mailer wraps. Some brands use seed paper for the visible outer layer. Others keep it inside the package where it does the emotional heavy lifting without carrying structural weight. Smart move, by the way, because not every plantable paper needs to be the whole container. A 60 mm x 180 mm belly band on a 350gsm outer box can do the job without making the whole package fragile.

The material itself is usually recycled paper pulp embedded with seeds. Common seed types include wildflower, basil, chamomile, and herb blends. Wildflower blends are the easiest to explain to customers because they sound familiar and forgiving. Basil and chamomile can work well for premium gift or wellness brands that want a more refined story. I’ve had clients ask for lavender seeds in Paris, then discover the growing conditions were too specific for their audience. That’s the kind of detail that sounds small until a customer emails saying nothing sprouted in a hot apartment windowsill. And yes, I have absolutely had to explain that “indoor windowsill in July” is not a miracle grow chamber.

Print compatibility is where a lot of people trip. Seed paper has a textured surface, so simple typography, one-color logos, and restrained artwork usually perform best. Heavy ink coverage can interfere with plantability, and tiny reverse type can vanish into the fiber texture. I’ve seen a batch of custom seed paper packaging wholesale ruined visually because someone wanted a full-coverage dark background on a naturally rough sheet. It looked muddy. The brand hated it. The supplier wasn’t thrilled either, because correcting that kind of mistake costs real money. A black logo on natural seed stock usually looks sharper than four colors trying to act like luxury.

Functional limits are part of the deal. Seed paper is thicker and more handmade in feel than standard coated stock. That means it is not the right choice for heavy flood coatings, super fine halftones, or delicate micro text. It also means the finish should stay minimal. Die-cuts, fold lines, glued formats, and basic scoring work well. Foil stamping, thick laminations, and high-gloss coatings are usually poor fits if plantability matters. In other words, custom seed paper packaging wholesale rewards discipline. Fancy for the sake of fancy usually loses, especially when the paper weight sits around 200gsm to 300gsm and the seed content already adds texture.

Use cases are broad, but not infinite. I’ve seen custom seed paper packaging wholesale used as an outer wrap for premium stationery sets, an internal brand card for a tea assortment, a promotional enclosure in a wellness mailer, and a retail packaging accent for handmade candles. It can also work as a standalone announcement card or a branded hang tag if the product itself has strong structure already. For many companies, that is the sweet spot: let the seed paper create emotional value while the main Custom Printed Boxes or rigid carton does the protective work. A launch kit in a 160 x 220 mm box can still feel elevated if the plantable card carries the story.

One thing buyers underestimate is how much seed paper changes the feeling of the whole package. I remember a factory visit in Dongguan where a Hong Kong buyer was comparing two samples for a launch kit. Same size. Same logo. Same insert copy. One was standard recycled paper, the other was seed paper. The seed paper sample felt softer, a little uneven, and much more human. The buyer didn’t say “eco” first. She said, “This feels like someone cared.” That’s the sale. Honestly, that line still annoys me a little because it was so simple and so true.

Specifications, Materials, and Print Options

For custom seed paper packaging wholesale, you need to ask for actual specs, not vague marketing fluff. Start with sheet size, paper weight, seed type, print side, cut style, and packaging format. If you skip any of those, you’ll get a quote that looks nice and behaves badly. I’ve seen brands approve a design without confirming the final fold direction, then discover the logo landed on the inside flap instead of the front panel. That kind of mistake is preventable. A 10-minute proof check is cheaper than a reprint, and a corrected dieline in Shenzhen beats a cargo delay in Long Beach.

Thickness matters. Seed paper often feels more handmade and less rigid than coated packaging paper, and that changes how it folds, scores, and stacks. If a buyer wants a stiff presentation piece, I usually suggest pairing the seed paper element with a stronger substrate in the same packaging system. That is one of the reasons custom seed paper packaging wholesale is often best used as a card, sleeve, or insert rather than a load-bearing structure. The material does not need to do everything. It just needs to do its job well. A 350gsm C1S artboard carton plus a 250gsm seed paper insert is usually a smarter pairing than forcing the seeded sheet to act like a box wall.

Print method depends on run size and artwork complexity. Digital printing works well for smaller and more variable jobs. Offset can make sense for larger wholesale runs, especially when the artwork is controlled and the colors are stable. Either way, the best results usually come from simpler layouts and restrained ink coverage. Soft tones and darker logos are easier to read on textured stock. Very light colors can disappear. Bright neon can look cheap. I’m being blunt because I’ve paid for enough bad proofs to know better, and I have the factory samples from Guangzhou, Shenzhen, and Ningbo to prove it.

Plantability is the main technical constraint. The inks, adhesives, and any coatings must be chosen so the paper still sprouts successfully. That means no heavy lamination, no aggressive adhesive blanket coverage, and no random finishing choice that looks good only in a mockup. The team should test the paper after printing. I like that kind of proof because it tells the truth fast. If a sample won’t germinate in a controlled test, it will not magically improve because someone adds a prettier email signature. For bulk runs, I usually ask for a 3-sheet sprouting test before approving a 5,000-piece order.

Storage matters too. Seed paper is more sensitive to moisture than regular stock, so cartons should be stored dry, flat, and away from direct humidity. Shelf life before planting depends on the seed type and storage conditions. Most buyers are not planting the same week they receive it, so the packaging has to survive warehousing, transit, and distribution without turning into a science project. I’ve had clients in Singapore and Miami ask why their seed paper curled. Usually the answer was simple: the cartons sat near a loading bay for too long at 28°C and 70% humidity. Paper and moisture are not romantic partners. They are, in fact, terrible roommates.

For buyers who care about standards, I always point them to real references. Packaging claims and material sourcing should not be based on wishful thinking. ISTA gives packaging test guidance that matters for transit performance, especially if the seed paper is part of a mailer or kit. FSC is useful when the recycled or fiber sourcing story needs third-party credibility. And if a brand is trying to reduce waste in its broader packaging program, EPA recycling guidance is a more honest reference than a vague “eco-friendly” claim on a sales page. That matters whether the production is in China, Vietnam, or a regional packaging facility in northern Italy.

When customers ask me what spec sheet to send, I tell them to include:

• Exact finished size in millimeters or inches
• Seed type, such as wildflower or basil
• Paper weight or target thickness
• One-side or two-side print
• Fold style, if any
• Quantity and ship-to country

That list saves time. It also stops the endless back-and-forth that kills momentum on wholesale orders. And yes, for custom seed paper packaging wholesale, momentum matters. A clean spec sheet can shave 2 to 3 business days off the quote stage and keep the job moving toward proof.

Custom Seed Paper Packaging Wholesale Pricing and MOQ

Custom seed paper packaging wholesale pricing is shaped by five things: seed mix, size, print complexity, die-cutting, and volume. That’s the basic math. If the design is simple, the unit cost can stay reasonable. If the packaging is a highly customized structural piece with multiple folds, glued components, and a tricky seed blend, the price rises fast. I’ve quoted insert cards around $0.15 per unit for 5,000 pieces in Shenzhen for a one-color wildflower job, and I’ve also seen fully customized custom seed paper packaging wholesale pieces land at $0.42 to $0.68 per unit once assembly and specialty die work were added. Both numbers were valid. Different jobs, different cost structures.

Wholesale vs small-batch economics are where the real value shows up. On a small run, the setup burden is spread across fewer pieces, so the unit price stays high. On a larger run, the same die line, press setup, and print preparation get amortized over more units. That’s why custom seed paper packaging wholesale becomes viable for launches, recurring gift programs, and seasonal collections. If the brand expects repeat orders, the first run should be planned like a production system, not a one-off art piece. I’ve seen too many “cute” orders become expensive because nobody thought about replenishment. The first order in 5,000 pieces is easier to scale than three separate 1,000-piece panic buys.

Here’s the pricing framework I usually use with clients:

• Insert cards and thank-you notes: lowest complexity, usually the best entry point for custom seed paper packaging wholesale, especially in the $0.15 to $0.22 range at 5,000 pieces.
• Tags and hang cards: slightly more expensive if shapes are custom die-cut, often around $0.18 to $0.28 per unit depending on size.
• Sleeves and belly bands: moderate pricing, especially when folding and gluing are involved, often $0.24 to $0.40 per unit at medium volume.
• Seed paper boxes or rigid-like structures: highest cost because structure, fit, and assembly all matter, and they can climb above $0.60 per unit before freight.

The MOQ logic is pretty simple, even if suppliers dress it up in language that sounds more dramatic than it is. Lower MOQs are possible, but they almost always come with a higher unit price and fewer customization options. If you want a simple printed card, you can often get a lower entry point. If you want custom seed paper packaging wholesale in a complex box format with special shaping, the minimum order will usually be higher because the production setup has to be justified. That is not greed. That is factory math. A supplier in Dongguan does not care about your mood board; they care about whether the 1,000-piece order pays for the die and machine time.

There are hidden costs too, and this is where a lot of brands get surprised. Artwork prep can cost if files are not print-ready. Samples can cost real money, especially if you need a custom printed proof rather than a plain material sheet. Special die lines add tooling charges, often $80 to $250 depending on the complexity and factory location. Freight is not free, despite what some quote sheets pretend. Storage may matter if the order is staged in partial shipments. When a client wants custom seed paper packaging wholesale shipped in phases, I always ask whether they have dry storage at the warehouse and whether they’ve checked carton dimensions against pallet space. Sounds boring. Saves money.

One negotiation still sticks in my head. A wellness brand wanted a beautiful seed paper wrap but had a budget that barely covered the premium print. I told them to simplify the artwork, keep one ink color, and shift the savings into a better paper weight and cleaner die line. They saved roughly $1,100 on the total order and got a better result. That is the kind of decision that makes custom seed paper packaging wholesale profitable instead of decorative. Budget planning should treat seed paper as a value-add item, not as a cheap paper substitute. It is neither.

If you want to compare options, that is exactly why we built Custom Packaging Products for brands that need more than one format and more than one price point. And if the order is recurring, seasonal, or tied to multiple SKUs, our Wholesale Programs are a better fit than trying to reinvent the wheel every time. A Guangzhou quote is one thing; a repeat program with the same spec is where the real savings show up.

How do you choose the right custom seed paper packaging wholesale format?

The right format depends on what the packaging has to do. If you need a low-cost brand touchpoint, choose insert cards or thank-you notes. If you want something more visible on shelf, go with sleeves, belly bands, or hang tags. If the package needs to carry structure, pair seed paper with a stronger carton and use the seeded piece as the branded layer. For custom seed paper packaging wholesale, the safest choice is usually the one that keeps the seeded paper doing what it does best: telling the story without carrying the whole load.

Order Process and Production Timeline

The order process for custom seed paper packaging wholesale is simple on paper and slightly annoying in real life if the buyer skips steps. I prefer this sequence: inquiry, spec confirmation, artwork check, sampling, approval, production, inspection, and shipment. If you move the order forward before the proof is clean, you are basically paying extra to discover a problem later. That is not efficiency. That is just expensive optimism. For a standard run, a clean proof approved on Monday can still be on a 12-15 business day production schedule if the spec is locked and the factory is in Guangdong.

Seed paper needs proofing more than standard paper packaging because the print file has to work on a textured, seed-filled surface and still respect the fold or cut. The artwork should be checked for coverage, alignment, and whether any critical text lands too close to the crease or edge. I’ve seen custom seed paper packaging wholesale files look perfect on screen and then fail in production because the logo sat exactly where the die line removed part of the mark. That is the kind of mistake a solid dieline check prevents. A 2 mm shift in the layout can save a 2,000-piece headache.

Sample timelines vary. Plain material samples can move quickly, sometimes in 3 to 5 business days if stock is available in Shenzhen or Dongguan. Custom printed samples take longer because layout approval, drying time, and finishing all need to happen. If a buyer is asking for a highly customized format, I advise them to plan extra time for the sample round. It is cheaper to spend an extra week on the proof than to spend two weeks arguing about a full reprint. That advice has saved more than one launch schedule and a few very tense Zoom calls.

Production depends on quantity, print method, and whether the order includes folding or assembly. A straightforward insert card order is faster than a multi-piece sleeve with glued tabs. A clean one-color layout moves faster than a full-color design with multiple variants. In many cases, custom seed paper packaging wholesale can be produced on a reasonable timeline if the files are ready and the spec is locked early. But if the buyer keeps changing seed type, size, and copy after proof approval, the timeline will stretch. Not because the factory is lazy. Because every change has a cost. A single revision after approval can push delivery by 2 to 4 business days.

Shipping and logistics deserve their own conversation. International freight, carton packing, and climate-safe storage affect the final result more than people expect. Seed paper should not be packed in damp cartons or stuffed into overheated containers without protection. I’ve visited warehouses in Shenzhen and New Jersey where the outer carton was fine, but the inside inserts had absorbed moisture in transit and picked up a curve. That can be fixed with better packing practices. It cannot be fixed with a prettier invoice.

Communication checkpoints are non-negotiable. Before production starts, the buyer should confirm seed type, artwork finalization, and pack-out format. If the packaging is going into retail packaging, the box dimensions need to match shelf and ship requirements. If it’s part of a subscription kit, the insert size has to fit the pack-out sequence. Custom seed paper packaging wholesale works best when the manufacturer and the brand stay aligned on three things: what it looks like, what it does, and how it ships. A 90 x 140 mm card packed flat in 500-piece cartons is a lot easier to handle than a loose bundle stuffed into a courier bag.

“The best seed paper order I ever saw was boring in the best way. Clear spec. One ink color. Confirmed seed type. No drama. It printed well, planted well, and reordered well.”

Why Custom Logo Things for Seed Paper Packaging

Custom Logo Things is the kind of partner brands need when they care about results more than packaging theater. We focus on fit, print quality, and repeatable outcomes. That matters because custom seed paper packaging wholesale is not a place for guesswork. You want someone who understands how the paper behaves in a press, how it folds in the carton, and what happens when a brand wants the same item again without rebuilding the spec from scratch. A supplier in Shenzhen can make a pretty sample. A supplier who can repeat it in 10,000 pieces is the one you actually need.

Customization support should cover size, shape, seed type, print layout, folding style, and wholesale ordering options. That sounds basic, but it is exactly where many suppliers get sloppy. I’ve had clients come in with a rough idea and leave with a cleaner spec because we asked the annoying questions early: Do you want wildflower or basil? One side or two? Is the card going inside a rigid box or mailing on its own? Does the design need to fit a standard die line or a custom one? Those answers affect both the quote and the outcome. They also affect whether your first quote comes back at $0.17 or $0.39 per unit.

Production control is another reason brands come back. Working with vetted suppliers, checking sample consistency, and reducing surprises on bulk orders is what keeps the order sane. I’ve spent enough time on factory visits in Dongguan and Ningbo to know that beautiful mockups mean very little if the press setup is unstable or the glue line is inconsistent. Real manufacturing is about repeatability. If a buyer is planning custom seed paper packaging wholesale for a launch and a replenishment cycle, they need a partner who can keep the second run looking like the first. That is not marketing. That is just not wasting money.

Brands also want someone who knows how custom packaging behaves in real factory conditions, not just in a design file. A paper that looks great on a monitor can be a pain to score. A layout that feels balanced on screen can become awkward once the folds are added. That is why my answer to “Can we make it look premium?” is usually “Yes, if we keep the structure honest.” Fancy is easy. Controlled is harder. Controlled is what sells, especially when the package has to survive assembly in Guangzhou and final packing in a logistics warehouse in Hong Kong.

Service strengths should be practical: fast quoting, clear specs, and help avoiding mistakes like over-inking or choosing the wrong stock. I’ve seen teams waste two weeks because a supplier kept answering in vague language. Buyers don’t need poetry. They need a unit cost, a timeline, and a proof that matches the intended product packaging. Custom Logo Things is built for B2B buyers who want launch support, retail programs, event packaging, and ongoing replenishment orders without babysitting every detail. If the factory can’t tell you whether a 250gsm seeded insert will fold cleanly, that’s a problem, not a mystery.

And yes, custom seed paper packaging wholesale fits neatly alongside other formats in the catalog. If a brand needs seed paper inserts one month and branded boxes the next, the spec should live in one place and the program should stay consistent. That is how package branding becomes repeatable instead of random. One SKU in March, another in September, same visual language, same plantable message, same factory record in the system.

How to Place an Order and Get It Right the First Time

If you want custom seed paper packaging wholesale to work on the first pass, start with the numbers. Gather dimensions, target quantity, preferred seed type, print artwork, and delivery deadline before you ask for a quote. That one habit eliminates half the email chain. I’ve seen buyers send a logo and a dream. Nice enthusiasm. Useless for pricing. A supplier needs specs, not vibes. If you can say “90 x 140 mm, wildflower seed mix, one-color black print, 5,000 pieces, proof approval by Friday,” you’ll get a real answer fast.

Choose the packaging format first. Insert card, sleeve, tag, or box. That decision determines the production method, the setup cost, and the unit price. If you try to price three formats at once without defining the use case, the quote will be slow and probably wrong. A tag for retail packaging is a different animal from a folded insert in a wellness box. Custom seed paper packaging wholesale should match the campaign structure, not fight it. A 100 x 180 mm sleeve around a 350gsm C1S box is not the same order as a loose announcement card in an envelope.

Ask for a sample or dieline before approving bulk production, especially if the brand is new to seed paper. This is the point where smart buyers save money. A sample shows the texture, print density, fold behavior, and plantability risk. If the artwork is tight, the sample will expose it. If the seed type is wrong for the customer base, the sample will expose that too. I’d rather have an awkward sample conversation than a warehouse full of unsold packaging. That one is more expensive and more annoying. A sample cycle usually adds 3 to 7 business days, which is a bargain compared with reprinting 5,000 units.

Prepare print files in vector format. Use clear logo placement and limit ink coverage where possible. Keep small text readable. Leave enough margin around folds and die edges. If the design is more decorative than functional, simplify it. That does not make it boring. It makes it print better. Custom seed paper packaging wholesale should look polished, not overworked. I’ve watched beautiful designs get ruined by one extra graphic element that nobody needed, especially when the file was built for offset printing in Shenzhen but approved off a compressed JPEG on a laptop.

Then compare the three things that actually matter: MOQ, unit price, and timeline. If one supplier gives you a low price but forces a huge minimum, that may not fit cash flow. If another offers a faster turnaround but the artwork limitations are too strict, the design may suffer. The right choice is the one that matches the campaign budget and launch date. Not the one that sounds nicest on a sales call. I’ve been on enough factory floors to know that a good quote is only good if it can be produced correctly. A $0.14 unit cost means nothing if the shipment slips by three weeks.

Here’s the easiest decision path:

1. Define the exact format.
2. Confirm the seed type and print style.
3. Request a sample or dieline.
4. Check MOQ against your forecast.
5. Lock the spec and approve production.

Do that, and custom seed paper packaging wholesale becomes a tool instead of a headache.

One final thought from someone who has spent years negotiating with suppliers and walking production lines: the best orders are the ones built on plain language. If the buyer can say, “We need 5,000 wildflower inserts, one-color black print, 90 x 140 mm, packed flat, ready in 18 business days after proof approval,” the whole job gets easier. That is how custom seed paper packaging wholesale should work. Clean. Specific. Profitable.

Custom seed paper packaging wholesale is not for every brand, and that’s fine. But for companies that want packaging with a tactile story, a plantable function, and a wholesale structure that actually supports repeat orders, it is one of the better options on the table. If you’re building a launch, a retail program, or a seasonal promotion, start with the spec, keep the design disciplined, and treat the packaging like part of the product experience. That’s how you get value instead of vanity, whether the order ships from Shenzhen, Dongguan, or a bonded warehouse near Los Angeles.